1821 Info 9b: Caleb Crompton - Florence McDonald

1821 Info 9b for Caleb Crompton
Florence McDonald wife of
Thomas Crompton Forsyth

Florence's origins

Robert   a 'cooper'                     Evangel/os or Evangel/Angelo/s
MacDonald of Wick, Caithness            Spiro/Spearo/Lykiardopoulos
b.                                      b......1834 Syra/Syros, Mykanos Prefecture, Greece
d.                                      d.25jul1901
|                                       |
m.10/23jan1852 Wick, Caithness          m.31jan1858  Ballarat, Victoria
|                                       |                                                                 
Jane Bruce                              Catherine Mangan
b.                                      b.01dec1838  Corofin, Ireland
d.                                      d.18apr1915
|                                       |        
|===================|===                |===========|== +10 ==|
John (Jack)                             Ellen        
methuon                                 Spearo               
b.08feb1864  Wick, Caithness            b.18jun1866  
d.03aug1898  Melbourne                  d.17jun1955  
|                                       |
m. .................................... p.............. m.07feb1900
|                                       |               |
?                                       |               Francis 
?                                       |               Griffin
b.                                      |               b......1863
d.                                      |               d.....-1955
|                                       |               
|=========|========|=====||             |               
Child 1   Child 2  Child 3              |               
                                        |                             
                                        |
                  Fathers unknown       | See death certificate for all children                                             
            |============|============..|============|============|=========||
            Thomas        Margaret      John         Florence     Robert
                                        mcdonald     mcdonald     mcdonald
            Spearo        Spearo        Spearo       Spearo       Spearo       
            b.17oct1885   b.19aug1887   b.30mar1889  b.07feb1891  b.23feb1894          
            d.19oct1960   d.24jan1888   d.30jul1889  d.29nov1970  d.15aug1895
            Who took the    *********     *********  |              *********
            name Griffin                             m.07jmar1916
                                                     |
                                                     Thomas crompton
                                                     Forsyth
                                                     b.13dec1885
                                                     d.30jul1930

1821info9c, sheet 2

Ellen Spearo, Florence's mother

Ellen's mother, Catherine Mangan, arrived in Geelong on the 'Parsee' on 04 November 1854, accompanied by both her parents and three sisters; a brother followed later in June 1858. Unfortunately, her father died soon after their arrival on 29 June 1854.

John McDonald, who was born in Wick, Scotland, arrived in Australia when he was around 18/19 years of age. It is thought he was indentured to his employer at Hotham Gasworks, Melbourne. At the age of 20 he had married someone, in Australia, and had three children by her before he met Ellen Spearo, who was born at Happy Valley, Victoria on the Ballarat goldfields, and was unable to get a divorce.

SCHEDULE A.
18	`66`	*BIRTHS in the District of*		`Happy Valley`		in the Colony of Victoria.		*Registered by*

No.	CHILD			PARENTS			INFORMANT	WITNESS	REGISTRAR
	Where and when Born	Name and whether parent or not	Sex	FATHER		MOTHER	Signature, Description Residence	Accoucher Nurse or other	When registered and where	Signature of Deputy Registrar
				Name, Surname Rank, Age Birth-place	When and where married. Issue	Name, Maiden Surname, Age Birth-place
`220`	`June 18th 1866 Happy Valley`	`Ellen (Present)`	`Female`	`Vangel Spearro Miner Micona Greece`	`January 1858 Ballarat Andrew-Decs Annie-Decs Andrew-Decs Andrew-2y`	`Catherine nee Mangan 27 Milltown Clare Ireland`	`Catherine Spearro Mother Happy Valley`	`R^t. Hoskins`	`Sept 6th 1866 Happy Valley`	`Thomas Lea`

While he and Ellen, never actually married they lived together and her three children, by him, all bore his surname as their middle name. They remained together until he died in 1898, aged 34. Florence, who only used the name McDonald when she married Thomas crompton Forysth (probably ashamed of her illegitimate status), was their only surviving child.

It is believed that Ellen's father dropped his family name when he arrived in Australia and proving his original surname is proving difficult as Florence burnt all the documents in the 1960s. It is believed that, in the depths of time, he came from the famous Greek merchant shipping 'Lykiardopoulos' family and 'jumped ship' from his uncle's ship and in early to mid 1850's (1854??) became a possible illegal entry. He married in Victoria in 1858, aged 24 years. His 1901 death certificate says he was in Australia for 47 years (daughter as informer). Family sources, including his own last born son, Constantine, say the family name is the Greek shipping family 'Lykiardopoulos', perhaps pronounced it 'Lythardopoulos'.

The exact form of his name appears to have been altered by Anglicisation and phonetic spellings, making difficult to trace birth and death certificates. He seems to have started in Australia as Angel/Vangel Spiro but was eventually buried as Evangel Spearo. At his marriage, he said his father was Andrew, a sailor but with no surname, and his mother Ellen Polou or Polon. The record shows him as born in Syria.

This is believed to be Syra on the island now know as Syros. Later records say he was born on Mykonos, which from 1823, with Syria comprised a Greek 'Prefecture'. On his death certificate his father became John Spearo, a sailor, and his mother the anglicised Ellen Paul.

Given Greek naming patterns the name Andrew is significant. His first two/three sons (depending on records) were named Andrew. All died, the last one at 6 years. His second daughter was Ellen (Florence's mother). Constantine was his last child with all the others in between seem named for his wife's family.

The Lykiardopoulos family originated in the island of Cephalonia being involved in shipping from the mid of 18th Century. By Lloyds 1904 they are presented as N.G. Lykiardinopoulos with a yellow and black quartered flag with the black letters N and L on the respective yellow panels. The 1912 issue presented the company as N.D. Lykiardinopulos with a white flag with red star. After 1929 the company's name was Lykiardinopulo and to this day the company still operates from UK as Neda Maritime Agency Co. Ltd. from Greece.

1821info9c, sheet 3

THIRD SCHEDULE
DEATHS in the District of	`Carngham`	in the ~~Colony~~ `State`

No.	DESCRIPTION			(1)Cause of death (2)Duration of last illness (3)Legally qualified Medical Practitioner (4)When he last saw the Deceased	Name and Surname of Father and Mother (Maiden name if known), with Occupation
	Where and When Died	Name and Surname Occupation	Sex and Age
402	25`^th July 1961 Main Road Snake Valley Carngham Riponshire County of Granville`	E`vanagel Spearo Miner Old age pensioner`	M`ale 69 years`	`(1) Pernicious Anaemia (2) Not certified (3) M? Naylor (4) 22^nd July 1901`	`John Spearo Sailor Ellen Spears Maiden name - Paul`

THIRD SCHEDULE
of Victoria	Register by `Susanna Jones`

Signature, Description and Residence of Informant	(1) Signature of Registrar (2) Date and (3) Where Registered	IF BURIAL REGISTERED		Where Born and how long in the Australian States, stating which	IF DECEASED WAS MARRIED
		When and where buried. Undertaker by whom certified	Name and Reli- gion of Minister or Name of Wit- nesses of Burial		(1) Where and what (2) Age and to (3)Whom	Issue, in order of Birth, the Names and Ages.
`Margaret Spearo Daughter Main Road Smoke Valley Carngham`	`(1) Susanna Jones (2) 2^6th July 1901 (3) Carngham`	27`^th July 1901 Cemetery Carngham James Nelson`	`Rev N Barrett Roman Catholic E Magee J Nelson`	Island of`Micona Greece 47 years Victoria`	`(1) Ballarat Victoria (2) 24 years (3) Catherine Mangan Wife living`	`Andrew-dead Annie-dead Margaret-dead Ellen 35 years Timothy of twin 33 years Francis of twin 33 years Margaret-dead Matilda 29 yrs Margaret 28 years Constantine 25 years`

After the death of Jack McDonald, Ellen married, on 07 February 1900, Francis Griffin. As Ellen Griffin she died at Fitzory, whilst living with Florence.

Neither Florence, nor her two deceased brothers by John McDonald, are listed on Ellen's death certificate. This may have happened because because her age at her marriage to Francis Griffin is given as 19 years, when she was actually 33 when she married him in 1900. Florence would have given these details for the death certificate as Ellen was living with her at the time of her death. She probably wanted to cover up her mother's secrets and her own illegitimacy, whilst also protecting her half brother, Tom, who was also still alive at the time.

1821info9c, sheet 4

THIRD SCHEDULE

DEATH in the District of MELBOURNE, in

Victoria, Registered by ARTHUR FEGAN,

1 No	No 6307
Description - 2 (1) When and where died .. (2) Usual place of residence .. 3 Name and Surname Occupation 4 Sex and age	17th June, 1955 99 Best Street, North Fitzroy City of Fitzroy, County of Bourke 99 Best Street, North Fitzroy City of Fitzroy Ellen GRIFFIN Home Duties Female, 88 years
5 (1) Cause of death (2) Duration of last illness (3) Legally qualified medical practitioner by whom certified (4) When he last saw deceased	Cerebral thrombosis-1 month Arteriosclerosis - years Dr. B.McColl, 16th June, 1955
6 Name and surname of father and mother (maiden name, if known), with occupation	Evamgel Spearo Catherine Spearo, formerly Mangan Labourer
7 Signature, description and resi- dence of informer	N Edwards Authorised Agent, Douglas Parade, Williamstown
8 (1) Signature of Registrar (2) Date (3) Where registered	A Fegan 23rd June, 1955 Melbourne
9 When and where buried Undertaker by whom certified 10 Name of Religious Minister or names of witnesses of burial	20th June, 1955 Brighton Cemetery T. Nelson W.Edwards A. Taylor
11 (1) Where born (2) Period of residence in Australia	Happy Valley, Victoria 88 years in Victoria
If deceased was married - 12 (1) Where and (2) At what age and (3) To whom (4) Conjugal Condition at date of Death	South Melbourne, Victoria 19 years Francis Griffin, Widow,
13 Issue in order of birth, the name and ages	Thomas 68 years Margaret, deceased

1821info9c, sheet 5

Right: 99 Best Street, Fitzroy where Ellen Spearo/Griffin died

The life of Florence mcdonald Spearo

SCHEDULE A.
18	`91`	*BIRTHS in the District of*		`Carlton`		in the Colony of Victoria.		*Registered by*	`John Glensson`

No.	CHILD			PARENTS			INFORMANT	WITNESS	REGISTRAR
	Where and when Born	Name and whether parent or not	Sex	FATHER		MOTHER	Signature, Description Residence	Accoucher Nurse or other witness	When registered and where	Signature of Deputy Registrar
				Name, Surname Rank, Age Birth-place	When and where married. Issue	Name, Maiden Surname, Age Birth-place
`220`	`7th February 1891 Jevers? Terrace Cardigan St Smith Ward City of Melbourne County of Bourke`	`Florence M^cDonald Present`	`Female`			`Ellen Spearo 24 Lintons Victoria`	`Ellen Spearo Mother Cardigan St Carlton`	`Not any Wm ODwyer Wm Hill`	`18th February 1891 Carlton`	`John Glensson`

Against Florence's birth there is a margin note that read 'Read January for February 18/2/91 JG'. She always celebrated her birthday in January.

1821info9b, sheet 6

In 1916 Florence married Thomas crompton Forsyth, the second son of Elizabeth emily milner Cox, nee Crompton, the second child of Caleb Crompton, and her second husband Thomas taylor Forsyth of Mount Jeffcott.

IN THE STATE OF VICTORIA IN THE COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA
FOURTH SCHEDULE - Acts Nos 2691 and 2720 Form C
CERTIFICATE OF MARRIAGE
Year 19`16` Parish or Church District	`South Melbourne`

No. in Register	When and where Married	Name and Surname of the Parties	Condition of the Parties			Birthplace
			Bachelor or Spinster	Children by former marriage
			Bachelor or Spinster	Living	Dead
25	March `17^th 1916 SS Peter & Pauls Church South Melbourne`	Thomas Forsyth`Florence M^cDonald`	`Bachelor Spinster`	`-`	`-`	`Victoria Victoria`

We declare that the above is a true statement of the particulars relating to each of us respectively and that Marriage `By License` was solemnised between us on the date and at the place mentioned according to `The Catholic Rite`		`Thomas Forsyth`
		`Florence M^cDonald`
Signature of Witnesses	`Thomas Griffin`	Signatures of Parties
	`Ellen Griffin`	Signatures of Parties


Denomination `Catholic`

Rank or Profession	Age	Residence		Parents
Rank or Profession	Age	Present	Usual	Father (Also occupation)	Mother (Maiden Name)
`Barman`Home Duties	`30 2`5	`2 Tate Place South Melbourne 2 Tate Place South Melbourne`	`90 Albert Road South Melbourne 2 Tate Place South Melbourne`	`Thomas Forsyth Farmer John M^cDonald`	`Elizabeth Crompton Ellen Spero`
`I Richard Collins,` being `a Catholic Priest` do hereby certify that I have, this day duly celebrated Marriage between the above named persons after notice (had been dispensed with by permission Reg J.P. and after declaration duly made as by law required (~~and with the written consent of~~, Dated this `Seventh` day of `March` 19`16`
Signature of Minister, Government S? or Registrar of Marriages				`Rich. A. Collins`

1821info9b, sheet 7

SS Peter & Paul Catholic Church, Melbourne 2010 - 71kB jpg

Above: SS Peter & Paul Catholic Church, at the corner of Dorcus and Montague Street, Melbourne

Thomas crompton Forsyth was born on 13 December 1885 at the combined homestead at Mount Jeffcott.

SCHEDULE A.
18	8	*BIRTHS in the District of*		`Jeffcott`		in the Colony of Victoria.		*Registered by*	`Tho^s Tyric`

No.	CHILD			PARENTS			INFORMANT	WITNESS	REGISTRAR
	Where and when Born	Name and whether parent or not	Sex	FATHER		MOTHER	Signature, Description Residence	Accoucher Nurse or other	When registered and where	Signature of Deputy Registrar
				Name, Surname Rank, Age Birth-place	When and where married. Issue	Name, Maiden Surname, Age Birth-place
42	`December 15th 1885 Jeffcott St Arnaud County of Lara Lara`	`Thomas Crompton Forsyth Present`	`Male`	`Tho^s. Taylor Forsyth Farmer Invernefs Scotland`	`October 1? 1884 St Arnaud Nil`	Elizabeth Taylor Maiden name Milner Crompton`38 years Tasmania ????`	`Tho^s.Forsyth Taylor Father`	(1) Nil (2) Mrs Strickland (3)Nil	February`8th 1886 Mt Jeffcott`	`Tho^s. Tyric`

Note: Thomas taylor Forsyth's wedding certificate indicates he was married on 12th October 1883.

1821info9c, sheet 8

Thomas died in 1930, aged 44, still working as a barman.

THIRD SCHEDULE
DEATHS in the District of	`Moonee Ponds`	in the State

No.	DESCRIPTION			(1)Cause of death (2)Duration of last illness (3)Legally qualified Medical Practitioner (4)When he last saw the Deceased	Name and Surname of Father and Mother (Maiden name if known), with Occupation
	Where and When Died	Name and Surname Occupation	Sex and Age
`2 7 0 3`	30 day of`July 1930 703 Mount Alexander Road Moonee Ponds City of Essenden County of Bourke`	Thomas`Crompton Forsyth Barman`	M`ale 44 years`	Atrophy of the heart 5 years`Heart failure Dr M.J. Ryan 29 day of July 1930`	`Thomas Taylor Forsyth Farmer Elizabeth Milner Forsyth formerly Crompton`

THIRD SCHEDULE
of Victoria	Register by Albert Edward Young

Signature, Description and Residence of Informant	(1) Signature of Registrar (2) Date and (3) Where Registered	IF BURIAL REGISTERED		Where Born and how long in the Australian States, stating which	IF DECEASED WAS MARRIED
		When and where buried. Undertaker by whom certified	Name and Reli- gion of Minister or Name of Wit- nesses of Burial		(1) Where and what (2) Age and to (3)Whom	Issue, in order of Birth, the Names and Ages.
`FG Pritchard Authorised Agent 680 Mt Alexander Road`Moonee Ponds	`? 31 day of July 1930 Moonee Ponds`	`31 day of July 1930 New Melbourne General Cemetery Joseph Allison`	`A.H. Allison Harry ?. Kelly`	`Mount Jeffcott Victoria 44 years State of Victoria`	`South Melbourne Victoria 30 years Florence McDonald`	`Jean dead Ellen 12 years Leslie 9 years John 8 years`

1821info9c, sheet 9

THIRD SCHEDULE

DEATH in the District of MELBOURNE, in

Victoria, Registered by Robert Francis SIZER,

1 No	No 2487/71
Description - 2 (1) When and where died .. (2) Usual place of residence .. 3 Name and Surname Occupation 4 Sex and age	29th November, 1970 Kew, 7 Middlesex Road, Surrey Hills Florence FORSYTH Home Duties Female, 79 years
5 (1) Cause of death and duration of last illness (2) Legally qualified medical practitioner by whom certified and when he last saw deceased	Myocardial Infarction Inquiry held at Kew by the Coroner, Mr H.W. Pascoe, on the 26th January, 1971
6 Name and surname of father and mother (maiden name, if known), with occupation	John MacDonald Ellen Griffin MacDonald, maiden name Spiro, Unknown
7 Signature, description and resi- dence of informer	Certified by H.W. Pascoe, Coroner, Melbourne
8 (1) Signature of Registrar (2) Date (3) Where registered	4th February, 1971, Melbourne
9 When and where buried Undertaker by whom certified 10 Name of Religious Minister or names of witnesses of burial	1st December 1970, Fawkner Cemetery H. Allison G. Allison B. Pascoe
11 (1) Where born (2) Period of residence in Australia	Carlton, Victoria 79 years in Victoria
If deceased was married - 12 (1) Where and (2) At what age and (3) To whom (4) Conjugal Condition at date of Death	Melbourne, Victoria 18 years Thomas Crompton Forsyth, Widow,
13 Issue in order of birth, the name and ages	Daphne, deceased Jean, deceased, Ellen Milner, 52 years, Leslie Thomas, 50 years, John Francis, 49 years

1821info9b, sheet 10

7 Middlesex Road, Surrey Hills 2010 - 51kB jpg

Above: 7 Middlesex Road, Surrey Hills 2010, where Florence Forsyth lived in 1970

Florence's first born child, Daphne evangel mcdonald Spero, born 1911 (father unknown/ no birth certificate located), was listed on her death certificate in 1970, she is not listed here, probably because she was born outside any marriage. She died on 25 April 1919.

Source:
With thanks to Cheryl Ashley, Florence's granddaughter

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This page was created by Richard Crompton and maintained by Chris Glass	Version A.4 Updated 02 October 2011

1821 Info 9b for Caleb Crompton Florence McDonald wife of Thomas Crompton Forsyth