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The House of Blois From the 13th to 16th Century

Gilbert de Venables
of Venables, Normandy and Kinderton, Cheshire
Caution:
Genealogical links between Gilbert de Venables and the Cromptons of the East Riding are speculative.  Though often very detailed in its content, some of this data is unreferenced. Evidence may never be forthcoming due to the complexities of the passage of time and the lack of real evidence. There are at least two speculative links. From:
  • Hamon de Legh to Simon de Legh de Crompton;
  • Simon de Legh de Crompton to the Cromptons in the various Lancashire town.
In Kipling's words: 'If you can dream - and not make dreams your master.'
Arms of Venables 10Kb-gif circa 1560  10Kb-gif Left: the blazon of the Venables family and of the village of Venables in the Department of Eure, Normandy

Azure two bar argent
In chief three mullets or pierced of the last

Crest: A wyvern wreathed gu or

Motto: Venabulis vinco

cr1066, sheet 2
Gener GENEALOGICAL ORIGINS ACCORDING TO ...Info 1 Venables before Gilbert
ation Ormerod/Leycester 1                        Harl 2                     JR Crompton 3                                                 
------|-----------------------------------------|--------------------------|----------------------------------
I     Gilbert de Venables                       Gilbert de Venables        Gilbert de VenablesInfo 2 Maps and photographs of Venables
      b.1030-1035                               b.1030-1035                b.1030-1035
      d.+1086                                   d.+1086                    d.+1093
      |                                         |                          |Info 3 The life of Gilbert of Venables
      |                                         |                          |==================|===========|...
II    Anon                                      Anon                       Gilbert            Hamon
      |                                         |                          de Venables        dela Legh4Info 4 The life of Gilbert in Cheshire
      |                                         |                          b.1062             b.1064
      |                                         |                          d.~1130            d.1113
      |                                         |                          |                  |
      |                                         |                          m.-1100            m.-1084
      |                                         |                          |                  |
      |                                         |                          Margery of Hatton  Adeliza de MalveysinInfo 5 The alternative life of Gilbert in Cheshire
      |                                         |                          dau.Walthew        dau. Walter
      |                                         |                          b.                 b.
      |                                         |                          d.                 d.~1139 
      |                                         |                                             at St Evroult AbbeyInfo 6 The estates in High Legh, Cheshire
III   Gilbert de Venables                       Anon
      Baron of Kynderton                        |
      d.1154-1189                               |
      |                                         |
      m.                                        |
      |                                         |
      Margery dau. of Walthew {also Waltheof]   |
      |                                         |
      |===================|==============|...   |========================||
IV    Sir William         Hamon                 Sir William de Venables
      de Venables         de Venables           who called Gilbert "proavussuus"
      Baron of Kynderton  (of West Hall         -his great grandfather
      d.~1228              High Legh)           d.~1228
      |                                         |
      |================||                       |============|=========|=======||
V     Hugh de Venables                          Hamon        William   Hugh 
      Baron of Kinderton                        de Venables  Venables  Venables 
      |                                         |
      |================||                       |================||
VI    Roger de Venables                         Roger 
      Baron of Kinderton                        Venables
      d. ~1261                                  d. ~1261
cr1066, sheet 3

This page shows the obvious difference in interpretation of the available material, particularly JR Crompton's.

Whist it seems possible that the progenitor of the Crompton family was Gilbert de Venables, later Barons of Kinderton, there is still uncertainty concerning the origins of the Crompton family within the township of Crompton, Lancashire. Several different trees have been offered but none with an absolute link. Whilst JR Crompton's weakness is the 11th century his strength is his recording his interpretation of the Cromptons of Crompton township. 3

The key is in making the link to High Legh and from there to Crompton in Lancashire. Since High Legh was Gilbert de Venables Domesday manor of Lege it is possible that one of his descendant inherited High Legh and adopted the toponym 5de Legh. The key figure appears to be Hamon de Legh who was granted West Hall 4 (Ormerod), but the first Hamon appears in generations II, IV and V depending on the researcher.

It is possible that the link is the migration of one Simon de Lee who with his son Hugh was living in Crompton and, according to records of Lancaster Assize of 20 October 1246, was in dispute with the Abbot of Roche over taking earth away from a quarry in the village of Crumpton [sic]. The other plaintiffs were Brun de Crompton and his brother Jordan, Adrain son of Elias and Gilbert de Bartos. (Parker, 1904 p.6)

Notes:
1 'The following pedigree down to the extinction of the male line is transcribed from a MS. pedigree by sir [sic] Peter Leycester, which has been collated and corrected from Inquistions p.m. [the Pleas and Recognition Rolls] and the Venables chartulary ... .' (Ormerod, p.198)
2 Working, before 1882, from the Harleian Manuscript 1424 which includes a transcript of the Visitation Record and from Harleian Manuscript 1505 which includes another transcript (or possibly a transcript of a transcript) of the Visitation Record. The original Visitation Records are in the College of Arms. I have no other information about the Harleian Manuscripts.
3 JR Crompton does not reference his sources.
4 There were two families living in High Legh - the Leighs of East Hall and the Leighs of West Hall.
5 Toponym a name taken from the place of abode eg of Venables.

Sources:
Parker Col. John, 'A calendar of the Lancashire Assize Roll, Part 1', The Record Society, 1904.
Walton Mike, 'The Venables - Barons of Kinderton' of Middlewich. With acknowledgement of his unpublished paper, 5th Venables Conference, Venables, department of Eure.

Suggestions for this genealogical progress are offered by:

It seems only right to present, until something more definite is proven, the alternatives for consideration and evolution.

The origins according to
Sir Peter Leycester 1666
The origins according to Ormerod, 1882 The origins according to James R Crompton, 1902
cr1066, sheet 4

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Version A11
Updated 11 May 2013